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O MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING, CITY COMMISSION, CITY OF DANIA, FLORIDA, HELD
MARCH 1, 1965.
The City Commission of the City of Dania, Florida, met in Regular Session
in the Commission Room at the City Hall.
® Present were: MAYOR-COMMISSIONER FRANK SALVINO
COMMISSIONERS ROBERT L. CRAMMER
VERA L. HILL
S. ELLIS.YOUNG
CARL ZENOBIA
CITY ATTORNEY CLARKE WALDEN
CITY MANAGER WILLIAM G. NEFF
BUILDING INSPECTOR CHARLES LINDEMAN
CHIEF OF POLICE MONTIE F. SMITH
CITY CLERK MARY THORNHILL,
The meeting was called to order at 8:00 P.M. by Mayor Salvino.
O 1. Roll Call.
2. Minutes of meetings held January. 18, February 1, 3, and 15, 1965 to be
approved.
A motion was made by Commissioner Zenobia that the minutes be approved.as
read. The motion was seconded by Commissioner Young,,and the roll being
called, the Commissioners voted as follows:
Grammer Yes
Hill Yes
Young Yes
Zenobia Yes
Salvino Yes
3. Unfinished Business:
Continued public hearing concerning the application of Nicholas
Vanella for rezoning the NW'k of the SE'k of Section 27-5042,
from B-2 to C-1 Classification.' Mr. Robert Butler, attorney,
representing the owner.
City Attorney Walden: What is the time that was set up?
City Clerk Mary Thornhill: Well it was just continued to the next meeting
Mr. Walden. We had the hearing at 8:15 last time.
Commissioner Young: There was no time.
rb` City Clerk Mary Thornhill: No sir, just continued to the next regular meet-
ing.
City Attorney Walden: Mr. Mayor, I think just for the record, you will recall
that the hearing was initially advertised for February 15. Mr. Butler repre-
senting the applicant found that- he could not be present at that time so it was
continued over. The legal ad read at the meeting on February 15, when there
were no objections from anyone in the audience, but to comply with the require-
ments of our various ordinances, I would like to read this ad again, and then
you can call for any further objections.
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that the City Commission, City of Dania,
Florida, shall conduct a public hearing at the City Hall, Dania,
Florida, at 8:15 P.M. , February 15, 1965, concerning the appli-
cation of Nicholas Vanella for the rezoning from B-2 Classifi=
j' cation to C-1 Classification of a portion of the Northwest k of
of the Southeast k of Section 27, Township 50 South Range 42
East, located on the east side of Federal Highway No.l, appro-
ximately one block north of the Viking Restaurant building.
An exact legal description of the property which is involved in
such application is on file at the City Hall, Dania, Florida, and
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is available for examination by the public.
Said application, if granted, will involve the passage and adop-`
tion of an ordinance by the City Commission of the City of Dania,
Florida, whereby the zoning of said property is changed from B-2
Classification to C-1 Classification.
All persons objecting to said application and to the possible
adoption of an ordinance, as aforesaid, should appear at the
w aforesaid hearing to present their objections.
City Attorney Walden: May I respectfully request that you ought to see if
there are any objections tonight.
Mayor Salvino: Does anybody in the audience have any objections?
No objections.
City Attorney Walden: I am not certain that the city knows.the exact area,
are there any plans Charlie, that show the location?
Building Inspector Charles Lindeman: Yes, I have a survey.
Commissioner Grammer: What is the recommendation of the Zoning Board on that?
A motion was made by Commissioner Grammer to make this zoning change on the
condition that we get from Mr. Butler, in writing, the right-of-way which the
County is asking for for the road going back to Laudania.
Commissioner Young: That is in addition to the stipulation as to front foot-
age and depth as recommended by the Planning & Zoning Board?
Building Inspector Lindeman: They only want it zoned. 175 feet depth C-1.
A motion was made by Commissioner Grammer to accept the Zoning Board's recom-
mendation. The motion was seconded by Commissioner Zenobia.
City Attorney Walden: This zoning change must be accompiibhadiby;ancordinance.
The intent of your motion it appears is to pass an ordinance on first reading
0 changing the zoning classification of this area to C-1, condition upon this
right-of-way deed.
Commissioner Young: Do you need any more details on that, such as the fact.
that it just be for one business?
City Attorney Walden: Is that part of the recommendation?
Commissioner Zenobia: It is part of the recommendation, yes.
City Attorney Walden: Alright, plus the various recommendations of the Zoning
Board.
Commissioner Young: Plus the 30 foot dedication.
City Attorney Walden: Right.
Mayor Salvino: Any more discussion?
Commissioner Young: Just one moment now, is his motion to adopt and pass an
ordinance on first reading?
Commissioner Grammer: If that is what it takes; I made a motion to change this
zoning so if it takes an ordinance it will have to be that too.
City Attorney Walden: And the ordinance to incorporate the recommendations of
the Zoning Board and contingent upon the right-of-way deed.
Mayor Salvino: Any more discussion? Clerk, call the roll.
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O The roll being called, thb Commissioners voted as follows:
Grammer Yes
Hill Yes
Young Yes
Zenobia Yes
Salvino Yes
4. Application for 2 COP License. Sam Calcagno, 601 South Federal Highway,
(First Reading)
A motion was made by Commissioner Young to pass it on first reading as a
formality to allow the investigation to get under way. The motion was
seconded by Commissioner Zenobia, and the roll being called, the Commis-
sioners voted as follows:
Grammer Yes
Hill Yes
Young Yes
Zenobia Yes
Salvino Yes
5. Recommendations from the February 22 Special Meeting of the Planning and
Zoning Board.
City Attorney Walden: I don't know if you want all of the discussion read,
but I think Ae have got to, and there is a correction to that.
City Attorney Walden read as follows:
The chairman called the meeting to order and stated that is was for
the purpose of making a recommendation to the City Commission re-
garding the application of Cosmo Loscialpo of 220 S. E 1st Street,
Dania, to build two two-unit apartments with two hotel rooms on Lots
13 and 14, Block 2, DANIA BEACH SUBDIVISION.
Mr. Lindeman presented plans to the members and stated that every-
thing was in order as far as the set-backs, parking and zoning were
concerned. The address of the property: 213 S. E. Park Street, Zon-
ing: R3.
The chairman requested comments from the board.
Mr. Kennedy stated that he had a telephone call from Mr. Loury and
understood Mr. Loury to state that inasmuch the other board members
had voted for it, his vote would not count but that he would like
to pass the plan right on to the Commission.
Mr. Loury stated that the purpose of the meeting was so that every-
one could express their views and Mr. Kennedy had misunderstood be-
cause he-did not mean that his vote would not count, but that the
other members were in favor of expediting matters for Mr. Loscialpo.
Mrs. Panella said after she had voiced her opinion over the phone,
+; she was advised that it was against the rules to vote over the phone.
She asked whether there were by-laws against, voting over the phone.
Mr. Loury stated that they could only recommend, that the Commission
could turn them down or go along with theip. The phone calls were not
final; just discussion.
Mr. Kennedy made a motion that the Board pass the plan on to the Com-
mission as is, without a recommendation. Mr. Loury asked for a second
twice, but the motion died for lack of a second. Mr. Lindeman stated
f that Mr. Loscialpo had been trying, to build the apartments for four
or five months. He had the approval of the Hotel and Restaurant Com-
mission. Everything is in order and can see. no reason Mr. Loscialpo
should be held up.
Mr. DiMauro made a motion that a recommendation be made to the City
Commission that the plan be approved asspresented. Seconded by Mr.
Tanner. Roll call vote asr:follows:
Mr. Kennedy - No Mr. DiMauro - Yes Mr. Tanner - Yes
Mrs. Panella - Yes Mr. Loury - Yes
Motion Carried.
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City Attorney Walden: There being no further business, the meeting adjourned.
® Then I believe there is a correction, which was dated February 25th:
Correction to minutes of the Special Meeting of the Dania Planning
and Zoning Board held on Monday, February 22nd, 1965 .at 7:30 P.M.
Mr. Kennedy, Vice-Chairman, contacted Mr. Loury, Chairman, and
stated that the minutes did not explain his reason for voting "No".
His reasons were as follows:
• 1. In his opinion, there was no general contractor on the job.
2: There were no building permits issued.
3. Temporary electric was installed.
4. Rough plumbing was installed.
5. Forms were installed for concrete slab pouring.
City Attorney Walden: I am not real sure what they are recommending, I guess
O that the plans be approved. Is that it, Charlie?
Building Inspector Charles Lindeman: Yes.
Commissioner Grammer: I'd like to ask something. It says they have been
trying to build this for four or five months. I notice on the set of plans
w of the Hotel Commission this just went up there the second and the 18th.
That is no four or five months. That is not even four or five weeks.
Building Inspector Lindeman: It was up to the Hotel and Restaurant Commission
once before, and they told him it didn't have to go through the Hotel and Res-
taurant Commission. They brought the plans in and I told them it has four
units there and must go before the Hotel and Restaurant Commission.
Commissioner Grammer: You mean the Hotel Commission said he didn't have to
go through them?
Building Inspector Lindeman: That's what he told me they said, yes.
Commissioner Young: Well first was these two outside doors were on the side
and it would be a simple duplex.
Building Inspector Lindeman: It would be a duplex, I have specified that.
• Commissioner Grammer: Was the doors through when he went to the Hotel Commis-
sion?
Building Inspector Lindeman: I don't know, but this is the plan he submitted
to me.
A motion was made by Commissioner Zenobia to accept the recommendation of the
Zoning Board. The motion was seconded by Commissioner Young, and the roll
being called, the Commissioners voted as- follows:
Grammer Yes
Hill Yes
Young Yes
Zenobia Yes
Salvino Yes
6. Correspondence:
w. City Clerk Mary Thornhill: I have a couple letters, Mr. Mayor. This is a
letter from the TRI-COUNTY GOVERNMENTAL LEAGUE:
"Dear Sirs:
Please notify all elected and appointed officials that there will be
a meeting of the Tri-County Governmental League the second Friday of
March - March 12th, at 7:00 P.M. at the Famous Restaurant, on Route
O 1 and North First Street, City of Lake Worth, Palm Beach County.
The guest speaker will be the former. Palm Beach County Senator, the
Honorable Senator Ralph Blank.
For group discussion: Lobbyist at the coming legislative session
in Tallahassee; 'subjects for lobbying will be beach erosion, gasoline
tax formula, revenue bonds for municipal industrial developments, the
driver's license statute, and any subject a member city wishes to
w ; place before the group for discussion.
Sincerely, Alice E. Lindner, Executive Secretary "
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City Clerk Mary Thornhill: I have another from the Broward County Law
Library: Mrs. Pauline C. Steuer, Librarian:
" Office of the City Commissioners, Dania, Florida;
Would it be possible for us to obtain a copy of the Charter of the
City of Dania?
We also notice that we have never received any supplements to the
Ordinances of the city as published in 1955. Would you please put
e us on your mailing list for these?
lie shall be glad to pay for any of these. Please bill the Broward
County Law Library.
Thank you for your assistance.
Sincerely, Pauline C. Steuer, Librarian "
® City Clerk Mary Thornhill: Mr. Walden, would you like to comment on that?
City Attorney Walden: As to having the Special Acts up there, which contains
a copy of the Charter, and I think the Commission gave the Law Library one
copy of the 155 Ordinances. Unless you want to get involved in copying all
of these various changes since then, you ,can't give them anymore. I was told
two years ago to re-write the code, and ours has got a draft of it. I respect-
fully suggest you hold up until you can incorporate your sewer ordinances in
it that you will eventually be passing. As far as your Law Library is con-
cerned, you can't give them any more.
City Clerk Mary Thornhill: That's all I have.
7. Report from the City Attorney:
City Attorney Walden: The only thing I wish to report on that is not on the
agenda tonight, ordinarily you would be considering on second reading, the
passage of the ordinance concerning surfing at Dania Beach. After the dis-
cussion at the last meeting, I have written to one or two other municipali-
ties which' I understand have ordinances, I don;t have copies so I don't have
anything to wit for you tonight, although I understand from Mr. Grammer that
there may be changes on whatever we talked about two weeks ago. I think
there is a basic difference of opinion amoung the Commissioners as to what
should be in the ordinance, I gather.
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Commissioner Zenobia: Yes, I would like to make a motion to add an amendment...
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Commissioner Young: I think it was understood that it would be a very simple
matter to make an amendment to the ordinance on either the second reading or
the third and final reading. That was so stated and recorded in the minutes
at the time that it was passed on first reading.
Commissioner Grammer: That don't have to be in the minutes, Mr. Young, you can
always make amendments.
` Commissioner Young: Very true, but that in itself I think would speak of the
intent.
Commissioner Hill: Mr. Mayor, I would like to make a motion that we add an
amendment to this ordinance that we allow surf-boarding 75 feet North of the
Fishing Pier, to the North. Or in other words, if you want to put "ban", that
we ban surf-boarding from 75 feet North of the Fishing Pier to the South City
Limits.
Mayor Salvino: Any more discussion?
Commissioner Young: I have just one question on that. Would you mind includ-
ing in that "other water games and sports", because frankly we don't know what
is coming up in the future.
Commissioner Hill: I will be glad to.
r. Commissioner Young: I'll second the amendment. '
y. ' Commissioner Zenobia: Did you say other water games and sports? That, could
't mean anything that has to do with swimming.
Commissioner Grammer: I think we have ordinances that cover boating and stuff
like that anyway. This is just part of our main ordinance. That is covering
14, a wide field when you say you don't know what is coming up a month from now.
You might want to have it under the pier.
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Commissioner Young: You might have what under the pier?
Commissioner Grammer: Whatever you are talking about. I don't know, you put
it in such a wild phrase. It could take in anything.
• Commissioner Young: Well frankly, my purpose in that Commissioner, was for the
purpose of providing for any eventiality, for example 6 months from now, there
may be a water-skiing-hula-hoop contest, or something like that. Which I don't
think we would want around the bathing area. For example, ball games are pro-'
hibited in our, what I will refer to as the South Beach Area. And numerous.
other games and sports. And very frequently you run into something that is
• a fad. Then in 6 months or a year, or two years it is out of style. And if
you haven It:dny ,prodisions for something else then you are going to run into
the some problem on that.
City Manager Neff: Mr. Walden, may I ask the City Attorney if it isn't within
the prerogative of the City Manager and the Chief of Police to exercise an
• emergency power in case there is .some exigency exist. that we hadn't formerly
seen?
City Attorney Walden: Are you going to wear a bathing suit out there? You
do it.
• Chief Smith: I can't get one big enough to fit me.
City Attorney Walden: Yes, under the Police Power the Chief has the right to
stop anything out there that is ddngerous to health and life.
City Manager Neff: Well I think under the emergency powers anything that came
• up could,be taken care of for a matter of two or three weeks until the Commis-
sion could pass on it, if it was necessary.
Commissioner Zenobia: Commissioner Hill, did you change your motion to read
the way Commissioner Young stated?
• Commissioner Hill: Yes, I consented to the change.
Commissioner Young: Now remember this, gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, we
are speaking in generalities. Up until a fairly recent date I didn't know very
much about syrf=boarding this side of Hawaii. But there are a few people who
want to use it, and it appears to be a wholesome activity when entered into
properly. Naturally if you have; a hot-rodder on a surf board or an automobile
or anything else there can be trouble.
Commissioner Zenobia: I could see that amendment until you started adding
everything else to it. You could stop them from anything then. They could
be playing a game pulling one another in the water and you could stop them
from that.
Commissioner Hill: Well that still would be at the discretion of the City
Manager.
1 Commissioner Zenobia: Well then why put it in the amendment?
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Commissioner Young: Well the original ordinance called for the banning of
surfing on the beach. And Commissioner Hill's amendment merely amends the
ordinance to allocate this certain area of the. North Beach from 75 feet North
of the Dania Fishing Pier to the North City Limits. And it also provides that
other water games could be played in there t6o.
City Attorney Walden: Well this in effect would be the reading, I told you
this same thing two weeks ago that when we write something up and by your third
reading I will have copies of the other ordinances for whatever they may be
{, worth to you. But I suggest you consider passing it only on the second read-
7. ing tonight, which is not final, and I will have a printed ordinance ready
for you by the third reading.
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O Commissioner Grammer: I think that is agreeable because probably Mr. Young
will change his mind again anyway because he did from the first time we tried
to put this over the same night when we passed it 6n the first reading. Run_
ning the kids out of town was rough, so he changed his mind tonight, so maybe
he will change it between now and the next meeting anyway.
Commissioner Young: Well Commissioner, you are just 100% wrong. If you will
check right back in your minutes.
Commissioner Grammer: I don't have to check through the minutes, I was here
at the meeting.
Commissioner Young: You will find that my statement was since there was a
hazard, and since it had to peas on three'readings at consecutive regular
meetings, that we would have any opportunity to make amendments, changes or
deletions, or additions to it during the other two readings.
Commissioner Grammer: That's right.
Commissioner Young
: But for the purpose of expedition, that I felt that we
should pass it on first reading that night. And that was my statement, and
that is so recorded. And any other implications .is giving a false impression.
Commissioner Grammer: You can call it false if you want to, I gave it.
Mayor Salvino: Any more discussion? Clerk, call the roll.
The roll being called, the Commissioners voted as follows:
Grammer Yes
Hill Yes
Young Yes
Zenobia Yes
Salvino Yes
8. Report from City Manager:
City Manager Neff: Members of the City Commission I have given all of the
Commissioners a copy of the action that T'would like to have by the Commis-
sion. I will start with number 1, the subject is the painting and repair of
the City Water Tank. Enclosed is a letter from the City Engineer. And the
remarks are that the last time that the tank was painted and repaired was in
July of 1960. It is then recommended by the City Engineer that it should be
done again. I would like to ask the City, Commission to make a motion to
authorize the City Manager to advertise for bids. I will entertain that motion.
Mayor Salvino:- Gentlemen, what is your pleasure?
Commissioner Young: That was for repainting and what?
City Manager Neff: Repainting and repair, Mr. Young. You have a copy of the
last time it was done and the cost of it attached to your letter.
Commissioner Young: No sir, I don't. That must have been in my box tonight.
City Manager Neff: The last time was in 160, at a cost of $3,250.00, which
included scraping of all the rust, blistered paint, spot prime all repaired
spots and new welds, prime entire inside and outside of the tank, finish coat
all inside and outside of tank supports and ladders, It has been recommended
by our City Engineer that this be done again. In fact, it is recommended, I
^� understand, by the City Engineer, recommended it be done every five years.
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A motion was made by Commissioner Zenobia to authorize the City Manager to
r advertise for bids to paint and repair the water tank. The motion was seconded
by Commissioner Grammer.
Commissioner Zenobia: What day would that come in Clarke?
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® City Attorney Walden: I think it will be the first one in April - April Sth,
Commissioner Zenobia: Bids to be due April 5th, at 8:15 P.M.
The roll being called, the Commissioners voted as follows:
Grammer Yes
Hill Yes
Young Yes
Zenobia Yes
Salvino Yes
City Manager Neff: The second request that I have before the Commission is
a proposal from Moore and Moore and the Water Conditioning Corporation, to
finalize the Water Treatment Plant contract. Enclosed you will find a letter
from Moore and Moore asking for final payment. Upon the recommendation of Mr.
Walden, Mr. Philpott, and Mr. Bach I had a meeting to discuss the settlement
of this contract, and he submitted a proposal to Mr. Walden and myself to bring
before the Commission for action. It *ill take a resolution to accept. And I
suggest that you refer to the City Engineer for final legal approval and refer
to the project Engineer for final payment approval.
Commissioner Grammer: This Moore and Moore, are they attorneys?
City Manager Neff: Moore and Moore are the attorneys, Mr. Grammer, for the
bonding company that had taken over Water Conditioning Corp. They are the
agents, and Water Conditioning is no longer in the picture.
Commissioner Young: Mr. Neff, does this reduce the amount by the penalty
provisions of the contract?
City Manager Neff: I beg your pardon, sir?
Commissioner Young: Is this amount reduced by the penalty provisions on
account of delay?
City Manager Neff: Yes it does, reduced $1,400.00, :as you can see by the
letter that they have enclosed. There is a separate enclosure attached to
it.
Commissioner Grammer: How does the contractor. feel?
City Manager Neff: Well this is the contractor's proposal, through his agent,
In other words, Moore and Moore is acting as the agent. for the bonding company,
who is acting as the agent for, the contractor. ' They have submitted their pro-
posal to the Commission for acceptance to' finalize it.
Commissioner Zenobia: How does the Engineer feel about it?
City Manager Neff: The Engineer is in approval. I have a letter from him if
you wish for me to read it. As I say here, Mr. Walden, Mr. Philpott and Mr.
Bach, who is the government agent, are all in agreement with this; and upon
their recommendation this was submitted to the Commission.
Commissioner Zenobia: Well the lastttime that this came up the Engineer re-
commended that we didn't pay any of this sum. That is why I was asking that.
City Manager Neff: This I am not aware of.
Commissioner Zenobia: It is in the minutes. This came up...I don't know the
exact date it came up, but he recommended, that the closing date be such and
such a date, and that there be a $2,800 penalty,
City Attorney Walden: Let me state what I know about it. It is true that the
Engineer stated to you a completion date, and if you accepted it, which you did,
it would involve a penalty of roughly $2,800. And a resolution to that effect
was adopted. After that, I will back up just a moment, as you may recall, the
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bonding company, American Casualty Company, up in Orlando, had to Cake over
and finish this job, and the bonding company, who is in effect represented
by the firm of Moore and Moore, that law firm requested a meeting with City
Officials, I believer Mr. Neff was at the meeting and Mr. Philpott. And
Moore and Moore the attorneys stated certain facts, which I don't say
believe them or not, they claim that the contractor was somewhat lulled into
A a false sense of secOrity. So if you don't go along with this recommendation
you are going to end up in a law suit to try and prove who is right and who
is wrong. When you say I recommend...I recommend splitting the difference.
Commissioner Young: Well this is 50% then of the recommended...
City Attorney Walden: Right. Now, you ought to back up, Mr. Culverson is
not...I don't know if he is available to us or not...it goes back to when he
was manager as to what was the contractor and what was not told him. I think
Philpott leans on the practical side of it to go*along with them.
City Manager Neff: Mr. Zenobia, I have a letter here from Mr. Philpott, if
you would like to read it, or if you want me to read it and make it part of
the records.
Commissioner Zenobia: Maybe you had better read it and make it part of the
record.
City Manager Neff read as follows:
"In reference to the assessment of liquidated damages against Water
Conditioning Equipment Corporation for Water Treatment Plant job,
please be advised that subject to the approval of City Commission
we will recommend any reasonable settlement for the following reasons:
1. That we believe that the City of Dinia would not be able to sub-
stantiate any monetary damages due to the delay.
2. In the event of a suit it would be hard to justify the position
that the assessment was actually in the form of liquidated damages
rather than as a penalty. "
City Manager Neff: This comes from Mr. Philpott of Philpott, Ross `&i:Saarinen.
At your pleasure gentlemen.
Commissioner Young: Well does he recommend accepting %50?
City Manager Neff: Yes, he was in the meeting with Mr. Walden and I.
Commissioner Young: Well his recommendation to us was somewhere in the neigh-
borhood of $2,800......
Commissioner Zenobia: Yes it changes....
Commissioner Young: Which is twice the amount.
City Manager Neff: Well, as Mr. Walden said, the determination was that this
be a negotiated settlement, and this is the negotiated settlement that the
!! agent for the contractor presents to the Commission. It is up to.you to either
accept or reject. If you accept it, fine. If you reject it, why then, as you
can see in their letter, they will not be bound to the agreement and they will
proceed with whatever means that they deemed advisable, which means that they
will go to litigation.
Commissioner Zenobia: Do you feel that if we went to litigation we wouldn't win?
City Attorney Walden: It is a toss-up, that is why I say settle.
-� Commissioner Zenobia: We should give it all to them then.
City Attorney Walden: Well you have this real problem and I recognize it.
For a long period of tiiie after we took over, when this bonding company took
over the job. This all goes back to last summer. Up until about December we
dealt almost from day to day with Jack Moore, who is the attorney for the bonding
company. Then he died very suddenly. Soto the extent that he might be a wit-
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ness in the law suit as to who said what, he is not available. And the various
• discussions we had with Mr. Culverson, and we haven't seen fit to call him up
to discuss anything with him. My suggestion is the cheapest thing to do is
just call it a draw. Philpott is right in saying that we have had no actual
damages. I don't think it is a fact that should influence you at all, but
you may remember that the City issued one or two checks through errors. And
this same law firm worked with us to resolve the problem satisfactory. I
• suggest that you remember that they tried to work with the city.
Commissioner Young: Still that settles for 50C on the dollar doesn't it?
Commissioner Zenobia: I feel that the man is entitled to it. If we can't
beat him lie should get it all, or else not get any of it. That's the way I
• feel about it.
City Attorney Walden: Well then let's go to court over it. Because that is
what the judge will decide, whether we get it all or nothing.
Commissioner Young: Well why don't we make a simple statement that under the
• circumstances, 75% of it, which will be approximately $1,900, was it,$2,800?
Commissioner Zenobia: Yes $2,800 it was in the beginning.
Commissioner Young: That would be $2,100.
• Commissioner Zenobia: Is that in the form of a motion?
Commissioner Young: No, I'm just kicking that out for thought just the same
as you did Carl. Well frankly, my opinion is this...we have a contract. And
the contractor has so many days to finish the job. He knows it at the time that
he signs the contract. Now if there is something happens that is his fault, it
• is rather difficult for them to day, or even our engineer to say, that.no actual
liquidated damages occurred, because I don't think he knows what any one of the
five Commissioners might have in mind. Still, if you are going to let a con-
tract get by without a penalty, then you may as well issue your contract to say
when you are darn well ready to get through with it let us know and we will pay
you. I will make a motion at this time that in lieu of passing the recommended
• resolution that we authorize the City Attorney with the assistance of the City
Manager to negotiate settlement on the basis of $2,100.
Commissioner Zenobia: I'll second that.
Mayor Salvino: Any more discussion? Clerk, call the roll.
The roll being called, the Commissioners voted as follows:
Grammer Yes
Hill Yes
Young Yes
Zenobia Yes
Salvino Yes
City Attorney Walden: So there may be no misunderstanding, if the bonding
company rejects that shall we just say we will end up in court? Is there any
point in negotiating further? It is rather.hard to keep coming back. This is
the last word on it, is that right?
City Manager Neff: Mr. Young, I think that was directed to you.
Commissioner Young: Well yes, as far as I am concerned. After listening to
the very plain statements made by our Engineer, and so forth, if we have to
call in expert witnesses and so forth, I doW,t see anything wrong with that.
l' City Manager Neff: In other words, I think Mr. Walden is asking, and I will
ask along with him, that if they refuse your offer ,of�75%, 25% settlement, we
will drop it and go to litigation. Is this•correct, is this' what the Commis-
sion wishes?
Commissioner Zenobia: I think we should get a report back.
-10-
Commissioner Young: I think that there will certainly be a sufficiency of
O time to allow for a report back to the Commission. It is very possible, and
it is probable that they would set forth mitigating circumstances that...
City Attorney Walden: Well, since the motion has already been made and voted
on I won't question it further. But Philpott did not previously get involved
in the merits of the thing. He said completion date was so and so, and applying
• that date to the contract the damages would be $2,400. That is all he ever told
us previously, and I think if we are going to discuss it further, then we ought
to have Mr. Philpott here to advise you on that.
City Manager Neff: Well that is why I read the letter. The advisement came
from that letter.
® City Attorney Walden: The intent of the motion is if we comd back I think Mr.
Philpott is going to want to come back.
CommissionerZenobia: Why don't we just what happens with them Clarke, and give
us the report, and bring Mr. Philpott back. "
City Manager Nbff: Alright, we will proceed. Going to the third point here
is a creation of an over-and-above contingency sewer fund. Now enclosed with
this there is a letter and a list of approximate expenditures. I think you
are all in receipt of a copy of that. Upon the recommendation of the project
Engineer, Mr. Philpott, and,the City Attorney Mr. Walden, and the city fiscal .
advisor, Mr. Vroon, I am requesting of the Commission to approve by motion
the establishment of an over-and-above contingency fund-,in the amount of $50,000.,
in order to handle the payment of all non-material and non-construction costs
applicable to the Dania Sewer Project. Now, I think you are all familiar with
this action. The amount should be drawn by"requisition in a lump sum and placed
in a special over-and-above fund and administered by the City the same as the
City General Fund, in strict accountability. This is in proper adherance to
all of the terms of the Sewer contract. . Now along with your dnclosure there
is an approximation as closely as can be determined, and it comes very close to
$50,000.00.
Commissioner Young: This is already supposed to be set up in a special fund.
Also, the administrative costs, City Manager and the City Clerk, are not being
paid extra for this job. Secretarial costs might be a little questionable.
Administrative costs - material. and equipment - $300,is practically insignifi-
cant when we are talking in sums of 2 million dollars. And by the same token,
our money is presently invested and earning a profitable interest for the tax
payers of Dania. My personal opinion is to withdraw $50 thousands of dollars
from this income-producing money would not serve the public good. Now by the
same token, at a later date, should it be deemed advisable, to re-allocate
certain funds into the various and sundary breakdowns that we have here, it
can be done at ;a later date after we have received interest on the invested
funds and any-items for example that would be expended from General Funds
could be done just the same as if it was out of the capitol fund. Or in plain
language, just the same as if it was loaned to this fund, if.that .should become
necessary. So I move at this time that request be denied.
Commissioner Grammer: I agree with you Mr. Young on most of this, but here we
have an inspector in here, and I certainly think that the City and the tax payers
in this sewer, we definitely need somebody down there to take notes on how these
sewers are going in. I don't think he should interfere with the Engineer. But
the city should have somebody there checking them.
Commissioner Young: Has an inspector been hired?
Commissioner Grammer: No, but according to our City Manager, which I have to
agree with him too, he don't have anything in" the General Fund budget, or what-
ever we are speaking of, the General Budget I will say, to pay this man a salary.
He would have to take it out of one of the other budgets to do it with, and I
think that being he is with the Sewer, it bertainly should be paid out of this
sewer bond issue we got, and not out of our General Fund.
Commissioner Young: Well Bob, what I mentioned a while ago was that any of
these contingent expenses can be accounted for at a later date. And by adopt-
ing and passing a resolution we could re-allocate funds. And even, for example,
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4j
if we would pay from that for two or three months, let's say an inspector,
® out of the General Fund, providing that the law would not allow him to be paid
by requisition to the specifically allocated funds, it would be a very simple
accounting procedure to re-allocate funds at such a time as you know what your
needs are. And during the meantime you are earning money for the taxpayers.
Commissioner Grammer: You are earning money for the taxpayers, but maybe the
• taxpayers are getting the worse end of the deal by letting these sewers go
without being inspected too. Now if you want to put in there to give the
City Manager permission to hire an inspector to put on the job and pay it
out, like you say borrow it for the first few months, I can go along with
that. , But I certainly think there should be somebody checking these sewers.
• Commissioner Young: I think that every Commissioner sitting up here has agreed
in theory on that.
City Manager Neff: Do we get to hire an inspector for the sewage abbvok your
General Fund. I think your attorney will tell you this. I think your fiscal
• officer will so advise you too! You should setup a fund for this if you wish
to do it. All expenses to the sewer fund must .be paid out of the sewer fund
I believe, isn't that right, Mr. Walden?
Commissioner Young: Well not necessarily to date, excuse me...
• City Attorney Walden: This is what I have understood the problem to be. I
will give you my opinion on it. The way this trust agreement is set up with
the bank is that every cent derived from the sale of the bonds is held by the
bank in a special trust account, and before the City can spedd one nickle of
the money, it must adopt a resolution making a requisition, and the Engineer
must be a party to that, certifying that the deal is a justcone, and that
• sufficient money will remain on hand after payment to.complete the project.
And except for the paper work and the detail, everytime a dollar is spent,
truthfully the City ought to adopt a resolution and a requisition. I think
that is all the City Manager has ever been trying to avoid,' The. reason I am
saying that is that I every day will order an abstract. This has to be paid
for, and I can either let the abstract company bill the City directly or I
• can pay for it and bill the City. And all the City Manager is trying to do
is set up some petty cash fund. I am not saying that I agree with him on the
amount, but I think that his philosophy is correct. You ought not to have to
adopt a resolution every time you have one of those little petty expenses come
up.
• Commissioner Young: Clarke; by the same method of reasoning, you could operate
on the theory of a capital working fund whereby the General Fund would loan
$27.50 to this program until such time that we know what the established need
was. We would be saving the interest that these monies are earning as well as
possibly cutting out a lot of the paper work by posting an excess in one portion
of this and possibly an overdraft in another portion.
• City Attorney Walden: The thing I don't know how you can overcome is the basic
resolution that we adopted I think it was last September, which stated that not
any General Funds, and by that not any tax revenues so to speak,.would be used
to pay for this sewer project. And the bond validation suit expressly provides
that no, the general credit onthe town will not be used to pay for it. So you
are in effect making a temporary loan on the General credit when you set up
these temporary accounts.
Commissioner Young: You are not actually paying it though, all you are doing is
loaning the money.
• City Attorney Walden: With. General Funds, supposing the sewer program doesn't
pay it back.
Commissioner Young: Well if the sewer+,program can set up a special allocation
now they certainly can be in a position to repay it. I just frankly don't think
it is good business.
Commissioner Zenobia: Did you ever get a second to that motion Ellis?
Commissioner Young: Frankly there was so much discussion. ..
City Attorney Walden: Why don't you just try this for a month. I have been
holding off on so many bills. Let's just mimeograph up some form resolutions.
. You may end up with a thousand resolutions over this thing.
City Manager Neff: Mr. Walden I think this is what...
City Attorney Walden: This is what we are trying to get around.
City Manager Neff: To expedite this thing, I think that this should have
been done prior to the allotment of Mr. Sparkman. I think we would be further
ahead now with our easements. But I think that we are all out of order.
Commissioner Zenobia: I think we ought to call for a second an that.
City Clerk Mary Thornhill: We have a motion that the request be denied. No
second.
Mayor Salvino: Is there a second to that motion? Second to the motion?
The motion died for lack of a second.
A motion was made by Commissioner Zenobia to approve the request lbws $3,300
for the administrative costs.
City Clerk Mary Thornhill: Thirty-three hundred, Mr. Zenobia?
• Commissioner Zenobia: Yes, I would like to ask one question though before
I finish .-this motion. We set up a $10,000 trust fund for Luther Sparkman.
i4ould it be necessary to leave $25,000 more in there?
City Manager Neff: If you will hold your motion I will answer your question.
The 25 hundred dollars is for Mr. Sparkman's salary.
Commissioner Zenobia: No, I don't mean that. I am talking about down here,
easements and right-df-ways 15 thousand, and pump site purchases 10. . We already
put $10,000 a trust fund for that.
City Manager Neff: Yes, in addition because you have made some change orders
. that Mr. Sparkman and Mr. Broomeaand Farina feel is going to entail this amount.
And incidently, if there is anything left over in; this fund, there is going to be
strict accountability of it, it will be returned to the sewer fund.
Commissioner Zenobia: My motion stands.
The motion was seconded by Commissioner .Grammer.
Mayor Salvino: Any more discussion?
Commissioner Hill: Just restate your motion please.
Commissioner Zenobia: I make a -.motion to accept the recommendation of the
City Manager except for the 33 hundred dollars on the bottom here for adminis-
trative costs.
City Manager Neff: Mr. Zenobia, that can be done at a later date. The admin-
istrative costs can be, and this is only an approximation.
40 Commissioner Zenobia: That's what I figure. Later on you will know how much
it costs. Then you can get it. The sewer .fund already owes the General Fund
28thousand dollars right now.
:;. Commissioner Hill: Now when we pass this that means that you are going to
., .
hire our own inspector.
City Manager Neff: If it is the desire of the Commission I will.
A
Commissioner Young: I have one question. Now if it is in theory illegal
for us not to set up this fund so that it is paid for out of the City money,
then how come the .City has already advanced 28 thousand dollars?
Commissioner Zenobia: That was before we ever got the funds Ellis.
-
Comnissioner Young: Before we got the funds?
Commissioner Zenobia: Yes, you gave 28 thousand dollars to Mr. Philpott
before you ever received the bond money.
A City Clerk Mary Thornhill: 1961.
Commissioner Zenobia: That is owing to the City. General Fund right nou.
It was paid by the General Fund.
Commissioner Young: Well then that isn't included in this?
Commissioner Zenobia: No. It is not. That will be transferred at another
chte.
City Attorney Walden: Let me make sure that the Commission understands.
The contractors on this over-all sewer project are going to requisition
• periodically for payment for work to date leas some retainage. And every
time they do that, the Commission should have the Engineer's recommendation.
And the Commission should adopt a resolution. The intent of this report to
you tonight made by Mr. Neff is simply to take the non-contractorial expenses
out, which is Mr. Sparkman's salary, and any inspector's salary. All this
motion as you now have it accomplished, and Itthink it is all that it is
• intended� to accomplish, is to set up a separate fund ,that the City could
draw on for paying sewer expenses without going through the need for a
separate resolution. But still, as with any City fund, the Commission
monthly or periodically must approve the disbursements of this. Now the
motion as presented does not authorize the City Manager to go out and hire
anybody. That should be done by separate motion.
•
City Manager Neff: This is the answer that I gave to Mrs. Hill. If the
Commission so directs me I will hire an inspector. I put it in because I
thought this was your intention.
Commissioner Hill: That will be your job to hire the inspector.
•
City Manager Neff: If the Commission so directs me, yes.
Mayor Salvino: Any more discussion?
Commissioner Young: Yes, I would like to respectfully bring to your attention
•. that the loss of revenue in a 12 month period would be approximately $2,000.
That's of tonight.
The roll being called, the Commissioners voted as follows:
Grammer Yes
• Hill Yes
Young No
Zenobia Yes
Salvino Yes
A motion was made by Commissioner Zenobia to instruct the City Manager to
0 hire a Sewer Inspector. The motion was seconded by Commissioner Grammer.
Commissioner Young: To hire one or take applications?
Commissioner Zenobia: Take applications to hire one. I think he already has
the applications.
•
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Mayor Salvino: Any more discussion?
•
Commissioner Zenobia: I just want to clear that. I said to take applications
and hire. It is up to him to hire,the man, not up to the City Commission.
Commissioner Young: Isn't your objection. that he should work in conjunction
with the Engineer?
•
Commissioner Zenobia: Yes, not to interfere with the Engineer, but' to, bring
back reports to us if there is anything going wrong and give us progress
reports as it is going along, to the City Manager.
Commissioner Young: Of course, he couldn't overrule the Engineer.
Commissioner Zenobia: No sir, he couldn't.
The roll being called, the Commissioners voted as follows:
Grammer Yes
Hill Yes
Young Yes
Zenobia, Yes
Salvino Yes
City Manager Neff: Preceding the next request here is .a replacement of radio
• equipment for the Police Department. Under the remarks: Due to the age and
condition of the present radio equipment used by the Police Department it is
deemed that it might be advisable to secure prices for replacement of equip-
ment. This has been brought to my attention by Chief Smith. I would respect-
fully request a motion to authorize the City Manager to advertise for bids for
• this equipment., set up to the specifications to be "drawn by myself and the
Chief of Police.
Mayor Salvino: Do I hear a motion?
Commissioner Hill: This is the radio equipment in the Police cars?
• City Manager Neff: In the Police cars and:the station. If you have any
questions Chief Smith....
Commissioner Young: Are you talking about the tower as well as .the...in other
words, the sending as well as receiving sets?
• Chief Smith: Yes sir. But not the tower, the tower is alright. It is the
equipment.
Commissioner Young: Does anyone have ,an approximation of the cost on this?
• City Manager Neff: Yes, but I don't believe that the exact figure should be
disclosed because there has been one company that was kind enough to look over
the equipment and submit a proposal, and if they are submitted to a bid I think
that their exact figure should be kept....
Commissioner Young: Well I agree with that, but I mean....
• City Manager Neff: I would say that it would be in the neighborhood of $2,500.00
for complete equipment.
Commissioner Young: How much money does the Chief of Police have left in the
Police Department's account for capital spending?
• Chief Smith: $3,600.00.
Commissioner Young: Well that will give you approximately enough for one vehicle
between now and the start of the new budget.
Chief Smith: If some emergency arises.
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O City Manager Neff: He has $3,101.33.
Commissioner Young: That's under New Equipment?
City Manager Neff: Yes air, new equipment.
Mayor Salvino: Do I hear a motion to authorize the City Manager to put this
out for bids?
A:motion was made by Commissioner Hill to authorize the City Manager to ad-
vertise for bids to be received by April 5, 1965, at 8:20 P.M. The motion
was seconded by Commissioner Young, and the roll being called, the Commis-
sioners voted as foLllows:
Grammer Yes
Hill Yes''
Young Yes
Zenobia Yes
Salvino Yes
City Manager Neff: My last item here, I am taking up a lot of time, but it
is necessary to include this. This is the Sewer Project Change Number 3.
It is the relocation of Pumping Station "H" to the public right-of-way. I
think you are all familiar with Pumping Station "H" which was on S. E.
2nd Avenue and Park Street. Last meeting I read a letter from Mr. Sparkman
that he was unable to procure any.easements or any parcel of land for this.
It was given back by the Commission to Mr. Philpott for further study, and
he recommends that it be placed in the right-of-way of Park Avenue. I think
all are in receipt of a copy of a copy of the blueprint, and the Change Order.
Now the change order has been drawn up, and the total amount of the Change
Order will amount to $1,568.95. And it is felt by the Engineer that this is
the most expeditious way to handle this and the least expensive. Because if
we went out to buy a piece of property it would probably run maybe three times
this amount. And if we get into litigation or condemnation, it might exceed
that. So you have before you the change order and the price. I request your
action on that.
0 A motion was made by Commissioner Grammer to accept the recommendation of the
Engineer on the Change Order.
Commissioner Young: What is that site now?
City Manager Neff: Site "H".
Commissioner Grammer: That is the one we were talking about in the street
before.
Commissioner Young: The Jai-Alai Motel, on public right-of-way.
O
City Manager Neff: Yes.
The motion was seconded by Commissioner Hill, and the roll. being called, the
Commissioners voted as follows:
Grammer Yes
Hill Yes
Young Yes
Zenobia Yes
Salvino Yes
City Manager Neff: That is all.
Mayor Salvino: Chief Smith do you have anything to bring up? Chief Lassiter?
Building Inspector Lindeman? Mr. Grammer? Anybody in the audience have any
thing to bring up?
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{
.r;
Virgil Tarpley, 205 S. W. 2nd Place: I was on the Commission when these
® sewer plans were drawn and at the present time there is nothing going as
those plans showed when we brought the sewer program up. I think the
estimated cost at that time 250 million dollars, and we got a bid in of
a little over possibly a million and 3/4, we got about 25 percent less
sewers. I would like to know where all this change came in, how it came
in, who authorized it, and all that. I have been doing a lot of talking,
and so far I haven't heard any answers. Now I think it is time that we
got some answers. Who authorized all this stuff? Now this thing is running
into a lot of money. All this changing around. And I am beginning to wonder
if the 2-1/2 million dollars is going to cover it, this million and 3/4 con-
tract that we have got. I would like to hear some answers myself.
Commissioner Crammer: Mr. Tarpley, I agree with you that the sewers were
changed from originally what my understanding was. And I am inclined to
agree with you as to whether we are going to have enough money myself. I
am thinking the same along with you. I agree with you.
Virgil Tarpley: Well the way things are going we are not going to have
enough money. You are slinging money around here like a one-armed paper
hanger.
City Manager Neff: Would you state please what you mean when you say
"increased costs". The costs that have been discussed tonight, Mr. Tarpley,
are the costs that normally would have been taken. In fact, I think the last
motion that the Commission made saved the City probably 4 to 5 thousand dollars.
Now you are speaking in generalities. Can you ask the Commission and the
Attorney and myself any specific instance that you would like pinpointed?
Virgil Tarpley: I'm not talking about that cost there, Mr. Neff. I'm talk-
ing about the change in the original plans that when I was on the Commission,
when they were drawn. The areas that were on it were deleted, down here in
the Southeast section and the Northeast section, which we ended up with about
25 percent less sewers.than we originally planned.on. That was before you
came here. There is another thing I want to bring out. I think it is time
that the taxpayers of this city knows what it is going to cost them. It
has been talked about 4 cents a square foot, and so far there has been no
action taken on that either. They say it is going to cost you 4 cents a
square foot, and the way this thing is going it may end up costing us 8
cents a square foot the way it is going. I think it is time the people of
this town know what this thing is going to cost them.
Commissioner Young: That was 4-1/2 cents.
Virgil Tarpley: Well 4-1/2, 4, 4-1/2 whatever it is the people still don't
know what it is going to cost, because there has been no action on it. I
think it is time that they know.
Commissioner Young What is the status of the Engineer's recommendation on
that?
S:
City Manager Neff: Well it is up for a public hearing I believe. I think
you have already established the date of.that, have you not Mr. Walden?
}" Virgil Tarpley: No. There is going to have to be a public hearing on it
though. They first said that there didn't have to be; but there is going
to have to be a public hearing.
City Attorney Walden: Well I wrote a letter to the City requesting them to
ask Mr. Philpott to come up with What the statutes calls a tentative apportion-
ment or preliminary estimate. Bill, that is something I think I mentioned to
you the other day.
City Manager Neff: It is in Mr. Philpott'.s hands if you sent it to him, but
I think that the tentative proposal was as Mr. Young says, 4-1/2 cents. But
as you say it is tentative, I don't think that there is anything definite
been determined,
-17-
Commissioner Young: Well the Engineer is working on it at the present time?
•
City Manager Neff: That's right.
Commissioner Young: Well then that is all we will tell them.
City Attorney Walden: Frankly, he has to give you the information before
you can have the hearing and you will check with him tomorrow to see how he
is coming,
Commissioner Grammer: Well I thought that the Engineer was the one that
recommended to us to charge 4-1/2 cents a square foot.
Commissioner Young: Well he said it would be 4.3 and to allow for breakage,
he would raise it to 4-1/2, 4.5.
Commissioner Grammer: Well in other words, we have already got his recommen-
dation.
Commissioner Young: Welllthat would be his preliminary....
City Attorney Walden: The law itself requires after you officially get
started that he do some more work, and that then you have a hearing. And
we have got to have a hearing, that is correct. But the Engineer is the one
that we are waiting on.
Virgil Tarpley: Well the sewers are well on their way under construction, and
the people still don't know what this thing is going to cost them.
Commissioner Young: Virgil, as you know, being here for quite some time, we
have to wait until the Enginedr comes back with something definite. , And you.
• also know that he gave us a rather firm committment, although naturally he
doesn't guarantee anything until it is under way. He gave us a rather firm
committment that it would not exceed 4.5 'cents a square foot.
Virgil Tarpley: I would like to know how these two areas got cut out of these
plans. That is another thing I would like to know too., And who authorized it.
• I know it wasn't authorized by the Commission when I was on there.
Commissioner Young: You have got a real 'good question there. I don't know
if there was some moon-lighting,going on, as Commissioner Grammer says, or
not.
• Virgil Tarpley: Well when there is this much money involved I think that the
Commission should take some kind. of action to find out.
Commissioner Young: Well Virgil it boils right down to the fact that the
Engineer says that he did nothing without proper authorization, .and anyone
of authority at that time said they did not give proper authorization, so
where do you go from there?
Virgil Tarpley: That's a good question too.
Commissioner Grammer: Well, I?m like Mr. Tarpley,. at 2-1/2 million dollars,
maybe it shoula investigated in some or another and come up to give the
`• public an answer on whyyit was changed.
Virgil Tarpley: Well this question has been asked quite often. It has been
:1 asked me because I was on the Commission at the time. And I can't answer it.
' Commissioner Grammer: I can't myself, I will be perfactlg:: frank with you.
• Virgil Tarpley: I'm like you, I think there ought to be some kind of an
investigation on it, and find out. Because there is a lot of money involved
r: here.
Commissioner Young: Well we have no carbon copies of letters of authorization
for any changes, nor does the engineer have any. So I have been informed.,
now that is only heresay.
.-18-
0 0
Virgil Tarpley: Who did make the change?
Commissioner Young: Well that my friend, is a dilemma. I don't know. I
didn't, you didn't, none of the Commissioners did it. And frankly, when'
changes are made I think it is supposed to be in black and white isn't it?
Virgil Tarpley: They are supposed to be made up here too.
Commissioner Young: Well I mean, if you get a change order from the
State Road Department when you are laying sod, you want it in black and
white don't you?
Virgil Tarpley: And we get it that way.
O
Commissioner Grammer: Well, Mr. Young, I think what Mr. Tarpley is referring
to, and I am saying that Mr. Tarpley, and I think the other two of you that
was here at the time, that we went over this sewer'program, and speaking more
or less for the East side, at one time I asked couldn't we create a sewer
district just for the east side to put these sewers in, and I was informed
at the time it was better to take in more territory without going through'
this sewer district. But we have added sewers on the whole west of Federal
Highway to the railroad tracks where personally some people could do without
sewers for maybe years. That they are getting sewers, but the sole purpose
of this was to take care of the east side. And like Mr. Tarpley says, the
impression they gave me with the lined-out map, they omitted about 25 percent
of the sewers. And this plan that he is talking about, and I didn't see this
plan until after the bids were let for bid, they brought the plan up here to
the meeting one night showing:•these: laterals all short going down the streets
and the alleys. And I think that is what you::are driving at isn't it Mr. Tarpley?
Virgil Tarpley: That's what I am referring to, yes. I wasn't on the Commis-
sion when the contract was let.
Commissioner Grammer: I agree with Mr. Tarpley on it. I was misinformed, or
I didn't understand it or something. And with Mr. Thornton, I have talked
this over with him and it was his understanding that it would be area "V, and
two little parcels way down in the Southeast section that would be omitted,
and the rest of the East side would have sewer laterals run in the streets
or in the alleys over there. And like he says, there are about 25 percent
of them left off of where we really need the sewers, and over here on the
ridge where there is possibly 50% of the people who could go for years with-
out them.
Virgil Tarpley: Personally, I could get along without sewers myself, but I
am all for the sewers myself. But at the samd,:time'.Iiwant.':tot'see the sewers
put in like they
y should be put in and like the land was zoned over there.
And as I say, I think the public is entitled to an answer as to why these
areas were deleted out. Whoever done it, who authorized it, or whatever
t took place, I think the public is entitled to it, to find.out where the
blame lies.
Commissioner Young: Virgil, I think that Mr. Philpott will be up here at
the time that Clarke makes a recommendation on a certain item that we re
u; . ferred to him a while ago. I think it would be very,well if you would ask
him these questions.
p`'•, Virgil Tarpley: I will be glad to.
r":
Commissioner Grammer: I don't think there is any need in doing that Mr.
Young, because we have already had a meeting and had Mr.. Philpott here.
You can go back and check the tape of the minutes, we have got them. Mr.,
Philpott said it was an order to him to his office to change these sewers ,
from the Northeast corner of the City Hall. And I think if you go back
through the minutes, you will find that was Mr. Philpott's statement. So
there is no need in asking Mr. Philpott again,
Virgil Tarpley: The order came from the City Hall?
Commissioner Grammer: Mr, Philpott's statement said that it came from the .
Northeast corner of the City Hall. Wasn't that his statement Mr. Zenobia7 .
-19
Commissioner Zenobia: Everybody will be getting out their compass here.
City Attorney Walden: What floor was that on?
Commissioner Grammer: He said the first floor; Well I think after it was all...
City Manager Neff: Did he specify the date, Mr. Grammer?
Commissioner Grammer: Yes he did. Yes, the date is specified in there too.
Commissioner Hill: Was that in writing?
Commissioner Grammer: It should be. It should be in the minutes.
Commissioner Hill: I mean was the order. in writing? Or oral?
Commissioner Grammer: Well that I don't know. I am just quoting what Mr.
Philpott said. So if you ask him again he is only going to give you the
same answer.
Commissioner Zenobia: It's in the minutes what Mr. Philpott said, and it
was before April 6, 1964. I would like to ask you a question Mr. Tarpley.
You stated that we haven't had a public hearing on the rates. Do you think
we are dragging our heels on it?
S Virgil Tarpley: Yes, I do.
Commissioner Zenobia : Well I would like to state this then, according to
the way it should have been done, it should have been done last September
;hen you were sitting on the Commission.
• Virgil Tarpley: I agree with you 100%.
Commissioner Grammer: Now wait a minute...
Virgil Tarpley: Not necessarily then. It should have been done'when you
received your bids.
Commissioner Grammer: Wait a minute. I'm going to'go to the defense of Mr.
Tarpley right there. If you go back to Mr. Henson, we have got the minutes
of that too. We should have. He said that we didn't have to have a hearing,
all we had to do was to promise one.
. Virgil Tarpley: Right.
Commissioner Grammer: Arid that is in the minutes. And we can go back to
September or maybe October. And that is Mr. Henann's words.
Virgil Tarpley: Yes, we were informed we didn't have to have one.
Commissioner Grammer: That's right. I-w illagree with you right there.
Commissioner Young: I believe Mr. Henann did state that we didn't have to
have a Public Hearing at that time.
Commissioner Grammer: He said all we had to have was approximately.
Commissioner Zenobia: Well we need one, I think we better start getting
ready to have one.
Virgil Tarpley: Well I would like to see the Commissioners follow through on
some kind of an investigation and see just what did happen. Thank you.
Mayor Salvino: Thank you, Mr. Tarpley. Anybody else in the audience have
anything to bring up?
Bernard O'Connor, 221 S. E. 2nd Terrace: In reference to an article published
by the Sun Tattler, on the 22nd, and this is a very good subject for a change.
-26-
Under Civilian Defense, the State Board of Health hopes to place 18 more
® packaged disaster hospitals in the state, a total of 61, including two in
Broward County. This is a complete 200-bed hospital, one is now stored
at the Police Association Park, and one is being stored at the North BrOward
District Hospital. Now these are free issues, all we need is a place to
store them. And I think this City should have one. They have got one in
Hollywood, and they have got one in Fort Lauderdale. If anything should
0 happen, ladies and gentlemen, it is a good thing to have this. Everything
is crated,and sterilized. It will come under Civilian Defense, and I wish
somebody would look into it, because it is there. And you could store it
in the Jai-Alai or some school. It is a very good thing. And there is no
charge for it being sent to you. It takes two hours, according to regulation,
it takes 40 mdn two hours to set up a complete 200-bed hospital. And that
is with all surgical tools. Now God forbid that we have to have this thing
and we have to use it. But it is a good Ching to have. It is free, and I
think we should have one in the City of Dania, which would include Cooper
City and Davie. Now if anything happens, I have 'been in hurricanes, and
you have been in them too, it is a good thing to have this thing. So I don't
know what we caniAo about it, but I wish somebody would do something about
40 it, through the City Commission or the Town Manager. Thank you very much.
Mayor Salvino: Anybody else in the .audience?
Paul Pisculli: I would like this commission if possible to make some effort
to stop the sewer construction on my property on S. E. Federal. It serves
no purpose to no one at all, for the mere fact that we have the sewer running
east and west on llth Street, and we have one running east and west on 12th
Street, and we have Federal Highway on one side. This blind alley, which was
useful years ago, is no longer useful. I don't want the City to spend any
money to condemn it. It really should be condemned. I merely want to stop
them from building the sewer on part of this property. That thing divides
my property in three parts, and they were about to do it and I stopped them.
I had the^ pleasure of seeing Mr. Neff last week, and I am 'very much surprised
that it is not on the agenda. It is very important to me. It divides my
property in three, as a matter of fact it cuts off a piece of property which,
Mr. Walden was your attorney at the time, it cost close to $20,000. Once you
cut it off with a 10 foot alley it becomes useless. At one time if you will
recall I tried to build a bowling alley there. And I had plans to build on
the entire block. I paid $15,000 for a motel or duplex or whatever it was
merely to comply with the laws of Dania to have enough property. Since then
I have given that up, and I have lost close to 20 or 30 thousand dollars. I
had a monstrosity of a building in the front which was of no use to no one.
The mere fact that I have nothing there now, I don't have to make a building.
But I am looking for the future on stopping the sewer from going through my
property. It is a blind alley, which in effect I can stop any truck from
going through if I want to because it goes nowhere.. A garbage truck would
have to go in there and back out. Otherwise they would be crossing my pro-
perty in front. Can something be done about it?
Mayor Salvino: Mr. Pisculli, I imagine the Engineer is going through this
for some reason. They must be knowing what they are doing.
Paul Pisculli: Yes, I will answer that sir. The Engineers merely were given
a map of existing alleys. Rather than rake up Federal Highway these sewers
were going in the alleys. It is all very good. This in effect, doing this is
going to cost me money. For the simple reason, that if I want to hook up and
build something there some day I would have to go to llth Street or 12th Street.
This serves no one at all. And it is dividing my property. Now they found,
and I took it up with the sewer department, they said to see the City about it.
It is not going anywhere. It is serving me. If I want to pay more money to
hook up on llth Street, who's business is it? But they claim that this is a
map given by the City to them, and every alley that belongs to the City can
be used. Now if this was of benefit to.the construction of the sewer I would
say, look you-are socking us, you are making us pay 2 or 3 thousand dollars
more. It is not. It is merely a convenience if and when I should build a
home or a piece of property in a particular corner. It doesn't serve anyone.
And they are going in there, and I understand, Mr. Neff was there. He claimed
that Mr. Sparkman investigated and nothing could be done about it. Or come up
to the meeting here and do something about it. It is really fine to go through .
t there, I understand why if it helps the City, I say yes. It doesn't. It helps
me, and I don't want it. Now can't something be done about it?
-21-
5 . ,
Commissioner Grammer: I think the question is a legal question. Does the
City own the alley, or does Paul Pisculli own the alley?
City Manager Neff: Mr. Grammer, may I clarify this2 When I talked to Mr.
Pisculli I advised him that Mr. Sparkman, who is our right-of-way agent,
has searched high and low, the abstract company has searched high and low,
and this is a dedicated alley. It has been dedicated to the City. Mr.
Pisculli believes that this alley belongs to him. -I have requested him to
bring forth-to the City or to the Commission any revocation of that dedica-
tion. So that he could prove to the City. Because the onus is on Mr. Pis-
culli, not on the City, as to whether or not it belongs to him or belongs
to the City. Now when the plans were drawn it was not determined who owned
each and every lot. It was determined whether there would be service to each
and every lot. And while Mr. Pisculli owns these today, he might not own them
next week. And whoever builds on there might want to be serviced, And this
is the reason that this was done. Now if he comes foreward and legally asks
for this dedication to be revoked, then it is up to the Commission to either
accept it or deny it. I think that this is Mr. Pisculli's action and this is
what I so informed him.
Paul Pisculli: Well no, not exactly. You explain it very nicely, but since
the time I spoke to you I have been to see the architect who designed the
bowling alley that I was to put on that piece of property, and the bowling
alley definitely went over that alley.
City Manager Neff: Well whether or not it went over that alley Mr. Pisculli
does not revoke the dedication.
Paul Pisculli: I.want to stop you from building a sewer which is useless to
no one, especially my .property. I have a sewer on both streets. I own 250
w feet square on Highway east and west. Now I don't think it is a very hard
thing to ask.
Commissioner Grammer: Let me get that...you lost me here. Do you have a
deed to that alley now Paul?
• Paul Pisculli: Well, I know just exactly what you are driving at. I knew
Mr. Neff was going to bring this up, that's why I brought it with me.
Someone is trying to steal it, and that is why I am protecting myself.
Commissioner Grammer: All I want to ask you is one question. Do you have
a deed to that alley?
Paul Pisculli: I have, but someone says that he has also. When a man tries
to buy 25 thousand dollars of property for 13 thousand dollars, there is laws
to that. And here it is in frontof Judge Cabot.
Commissioner 'Grammer: Well, like I say, I ain't no attorney.
Paul Pisculli: Alright, don't go into that. If I didn't know it I wouldn't
be up here wasting my time. And I am sure I wouldn't give up my property for
13 thousand dollars.
Commissioner Grammer: Why I asked you Paul, you brought it up to vacate the
alley.
Paul Pisculli: Well, no I didn't.
Commissioner Grammer: You said later on.
• Paul Pisculli: Yes, I don't need it. The alley, you have got to understand,.
You should know because you have been there, and Zenobia should know because
you have been tbere...this alley goes in just 130 feet. It cannot go through
because the property of the restaurant, ,the lots run north and south. You
can't cross my property with trucks. If I want to stop you I can stop you.
Therefore this little piece of alley goes in 120 feet, it cannot go further.
• If he has to go out he has to back out. . What good is 'it? It is to serve only
-22
if and when someone else would want to use the property to cut it up and need
® sewers. As long as we have sewers on llth and 12th street, why do we need it?
Mayor Salvino: Well Mr. Pisculli, we will get the City Attorney and the City
Manager to check that.
Paul Pisculli: Do I have to put anything in writing? Thank you.
•
Mayor Salvino: Anybody else in the audience?
Charles DiMuzzio: I would like to have a little information on this annexa-
tion that Lauderdale and Hollywood are fighting over. I do know that we tried
to get some of this land over here, but I haven't heard anything from Dania in
• on this. Or just how much it involves. .I am just after a little information.
Are we protecting ourself on that, or do we have any right to that land over
there?
City Manager Neff: Which land are you speaking of?
• Charles DiMuzzio: Northoof the...Northeast of the Cut-off canal going over to
the Port. The land in question is the port at the...that Hollywood is fight-
ing over, and Fort Lauderdale. But I am talking in reference to the land
South of that, to the Dania Cut-off canal, North of Federal Highway, or East
of Federal Highway rather.
• City Manager Neff: East of Federal Highway and North of Dania.....
Charles DiMuzzio: Dania Cut-off canal, and South of the Port.
Commissioner Young: Charlie, excuse me just one moment, I know the question
wasA t referred or directed to me, but I think a portion of what you are talk-
ing about was taken care of at our last regular meeting when we passed a reso-
lution of intent to lay water mains down Taylor Road for quite some little
distance with the understanding that a dedicated right-of-way for a road
would be given, the County would pave the road, and the people would be prone
to accept annexation to Dania. Now that would be, I assume, annexation by
petition, wouldn't it counselor?
•
City Attorney Walden: There are less than 10 owners in that general area,
and you can annex that number very simply.
Charles DiMuzzio: That's all I wanted to know. Thank you.
• Mayor Salvino: Thank you Mr. DiMuzzio. Anybody else in the audience?
Bill Rhodes, 34 S. E. llth Street: What happened to the Comfort Station that
we were going to build on the South end of Dania Beach?
City Manager Neff: Mr. Rhodes, I brought it to the attention of the Commis-
sion at the last two meetings. The first meeting was, an approximation cost,
and the second meeting was the exact cost. It is up to the Commission to
authorize me to advertise for bids if they so see fit. I forget the exact
figures now, but I have them.
Bill Rhodes: Now it is getting into the summer season and that is rough on
• my place down there. Mr. Grammer stated here a while ago he had to wait in
line. That's all.
Mayor Salvino: Thank you Mr. Rhodes, Anybody else in the audience? Commis-
sioner Grammer?
• Commissioner Grammer: Yes. On the garbage problem, we closed 'the. dumps and
we were going to try it for a month or two,: which we have, been,trying it. And
I feel that the City could save money by going at this in a different method
than what we are doing. Now last month it cost.$425.00 just to dump 'the gar-
bage, that is not counting salaries or wear and tear on your truck, gasoline
and so forth. And I think that the City would come up with a good contractoto
• get some commercial outfit to come in here, with a good enough contract so
that it wouldn't cost the residents any more than what it is now, which is
is -23-
nothing, the City could foot that bill of say $1.50 a month or whatever it
0 figures out to or $2.00 a month, I don't know the exact figure it would be. .
This running out here with the trucks, I know Mr. Callahan is renting a
building from me now. He had to move from where he was at. One of them
garbage trucks are there every day putting a new part on them. And they
aren't going to last very much longer. We are going to have to go and
either buy new garbage trucks, or we are going to have to do something.
• So I think it is worth the City's time and effort to check into this. Our
City Manager could get some kind of specs up. To do it, I estimate the
City would save money by it.
Commissioner Hill: I agree with you Commissioner Grammer.
• City Manager Neff: I do too.
Commissioner Zenobia: I think most of your cities are going into these con-
tracts now. And it would be the best way I think. The city could pay it
with the funds they have now that is set up for the garbage, instead of
having each homeowner pay it. And I think it would be much better to get
• out of the garbage business altogether. We are hauling commercial garbage
around here, which we shouldn't be doing at all. It is beating our trucks
up, and costing us a lot of money.
City Attorney Walden: Alright, I think you should come up with a suggested
set of specifications.
•
City Manager Neff: Mr. Grammer, with your permission, I would like to make
an investigation of this from our neighboring cities and also from the inde-
pendents in the area and bring back to the Commission at the earliest possible
date as I can some hypothetical figure, some figure that we can go on and then
go further and see what we can receive at this time.
•
Commissioner Grammer: I agree with you.
Commissioner Zenobia: I think it is a good idea.
Commissioner Hill: Do we need that in the form of a motion?
•
Mayor Salvino: No we don't need a .motion. Is there anything else Commissioner
Grammer?
Commissioner Grammer: Yes, I have one more thing. We had some plans drawn up
• for a fire station several months ago now, which we were going to build right
away, it sounded like at the time. And it seems like it just died on the vine.
I would like to get this back out, and get with the Fire Chief and the City
Manager to come up with a det of plans that we could put out for bid, and get
this fire station built. We have been talking about it a year now.
Commissioner Hill: How are you going to pay for it?
Commissioner Grammer: 'I'll pay for it.
Commissioner Zenobia: Is that on the record?
Commissioner Grammer: We got a little money on the water plant that they owe
us...I think we can come up with it. .
Commissioner Hill: I know when we were just speaking of this we were speaking
of building our own incinerator and financing is all together.
Commissioner Zenobia: Did you come up with any cost at all on the fire station
• before?
Commissioner Hill: Estimated.
Commissioner Grammer: Well I would like to...whether it would take a motion or
what....for our Fire Chief and our City Manager to get together and come up'with
a set of plans and get something done on it, let's quit arguing for a while and
get something done for the City.
-24-
.r.
City Manager Neff: Mr. Grammer, may I ask for my own edification, how far
® did the plans progress. Were they actually drawn?
Commissioner Grammer: Yes sir, we....do you have a set of those with you Chief?
Chief Lassiter: Preliminary.
Commissioner Grammer: Yes.
Chief Lassiter: I have them downstairs. And there is some in the City Manager's
office.
Commissioner Grammer: Well he has them then.
•
Chief Lassiter: Just the preliminary plans.
City Manager Neff: If you so desire I will be glad to look up the plans.
Chief Lassiter: Will this have to have an architect and an Engineer?
•
Commissioner Grammer: Oh yes.
Chief Lassiter: The Citie's Mr. Broome drew the preliminary plans.
Commissioner Grammer: Well he is our City Engineer.'. That will be all.
Mayor Salvino: Commissioner Hill?
Commissioner Hill: Yes, I still would like to go back to this beach comf6rt
station. I'm with Mr. Rhodes, I would like... Mr. Neff, when you look into
those plans did one of those plans have the overhang like the Sheltered area?
• 11
City Manager Neff: Yes, I believe it was. One was of that type.
Commissioner Hill: And that one, do you recall about how much that was?
City Manager Neff: I hate to say, but I, if I may say so without being held
• to it, I think it was in-the neighborhood of $6,800. I am guessing now. I
wouldn't want to be held to it. I can find out. But I think it was in that
area. Do any of the Commissioners recall?
Commissioner Grammer: What Commissioner Hill is, talking about, she is talk-
ing about an area there where we have benches under there to eat on. These
• two sets of plans that he has Vera, one is for, I think it is 30 acre park,
and one is the last one that we built on the beach, I think.it is a life-
guard station which is the one with the overhang.
City Manager Neff: Oh, I misunderstood.
• Commissioner Hill: No, I'm talking about the one that is just like that one
that is North of Mr. Rhode's restaurant.
City Manager Neff: With the pavilion on the side?
Commissioner Hill: Yes.
City Manager Neff: No, this is not. I beg your pardon, I misunderstood.
Commissioner Hill: Well this is the type that I personally would be interested
in to build on the other end of the beach.
• City Manager Neff: Well I think we could probably have those plans drawn very
simply and very reasonably, and if the Commission would so desire, we could
have the plans drawn and put them up for bid. We don't have to accept the
bids if the bids are too high. If you want to proceed, why, all you need is
a motion.
•` Commissioner Hill: Well, I'll make the motion, and I so desire.
F#_=; -25-
0 A motion was made by Commissioner Hill to have the plans drawn for the
Comfort Station on the Beach. The motion was seconded by Commissioner
Grammer.
Commissioner Grammer: We do have the money in the budget%for this. We
put in for it. And I don't think it would cost any more for that open
carporte than it would the two closed rooms anyway.
Commissioner Hill: No. When the weather turns bad the people have no
place to run to, except that one shelter and into Mr. Rhode's restaurant.
Mayor Salvino: Any more discussion? Clerk, call the roll.
The roll being called, the Commissioners voted as follows:
Grammer Yes
Hill Yes
Young _ Yes
• Zenobia Yes
Salvino Yes
Commissioner Hill: I would like tocask Mr. Neff also have you taken any
steps on heating the Senior Citizen's building? ,
City Manager Neff: Yes, I have the two proposals now and I believe that
within the next week or 10 days.we will be taking some action on it. I
wish we could have done it during the cold snap, but that's the way it goes.
Commissioner Hill: That's all I have. .
Mayor Salvino: Commissioner Young?
Commissioner Young: Yes, I have one little item I would like to bring up
for discussion. I have had any number of complaints from around the city
now for quite some time, and this is referenced with the actions of two.of
our esteemed City Commissioners spending so much time around City Hall. I
have had people to call me on the telephone who said it just seemed that they
were living there. And I do know that in coming by for 2,3,4, ur 5 minutes
2 or 3 times a day, I have found the Commissioners there talking with depart-
ment heads, and I don't believe that that can be done, in other words, by
having people around City Hall practically an entire day or half a day, I
don't believe that that is,allowing the City employees to conduct their duties
in a manner that they are supposed to. Now I am bringing this up for a matter.
of discussion because I have had numerous complaints from City employees and
from taxpayers, even taxpayers who come in to pay their water bills, and it
would appear to me that in spending too much time around City Hall, be.it with
the Police Chief, the Fire Chief, City Manager, City Clerk-Auditor, or any
other city employee, where apparently it gets into a daily routine, is not in
the best interest of the public. Now I am bringing this up at this time as a
matter of discussion.
Commissioner Zenobia: I wouldi.like to ask you, how about getting a list of the
people who complained, and I will also get a list of names of the people who
tell me you don't spend enough time around City Hall.
Commissioner Grammer: I was fixing to say maybe if we all spent a little more
time along about the time that these sewers was changed without anybody knowing
it, we would all be better off.
From the Audience: Why don't you spend your time down at the sewers then?
Commissioner Grammer: I never asked you nothing, I'm talking to the Commissioners.
It is none of your business. If I can afford to stay around City Hall all day I
will stay here. It is none of your business.
From the Audience: It is my business, because I am a taxpayer.
-26;.
�.
IPI
Commissioner Zenobia: I think he is out of order, Mr. Mayor. I think the
whole question is out of order myself.
Commissioner Young: Frankly I don't believe that the question is Otto hours,
Of
For example, there
order. have been many instance$ where an hour,
three hours, or four hours
of which frankly,luable yifm the yCommissioner hasees time has naclistm
mated by answering 4 or he can
of questions, he can present them either to a Commission meeting,
present them in the form of a letter, or he can present them by telephone
then hang up and wait for them to call back, and that way
Iydis not disrupel ti it
ng
the general routine of the employees of the city.
is out of order, and frankly, insofar
raas t city list ofithatmfoees are
rythe simple reason,
I have no intention of giving
that their complaints to me were in a confidential nature and they did not
expect me to reveal the names.
Commissioner Grammer: Maybe the complaint came-to you. Maybe they are talking
about you instead of two other Commissioners.
commissioner Young: Well, I certainly wouldn't object to that. It wouldn't
ked about. But on something like this...
be the first time I was ever tal
ay, if the employee6is mmking,a.complaint
Commissioner Grammer: Well I s
about two commissioners, if they have given them orders or something lliikke�that,
definitely a commissioner shouldn't do that. But not as I know of,
anybody or
tknowhinkt
twhoever the employee was just hat any commissioner has nmisinformedayou that'ers s ally Hall. So I
Commissioner Young: Well I don't feel that way. I personally have observed
me during
it a number of times. I have seen it happen for a long period
the day. And our city employees only have 8 hours o£ productive labor. If
ir time
the Commissioners take one hour, two hours, or three
andutheoworke
they are not going to be able t i is goingtton
o function properly to be raising
get behind. And then one of these days one of us s going
one their work properly. Now we are not
Cain because so and so Hasn't d
supposed to in under our Charter. We are not supposed to interfere
with the conduct of the City Employees. We are noth�nog eorlettoneifiheriful-
lative body. We legislate policy and then it is up p P
fill our items of legislation, and if they don't do it, then they can look
for another job.
Commissioner Grammer: That's why I say Mr. Young, these employees that
bring you this complaint to you, I don't know why to you, but if they are
going to bring a complaint and name a Commissioner, they should have gump-
tion enough to name the names if they are going to bring these charges against
Commissioner does have a right to defend himself.
a Commissioner. After all, A
Commissioner Young: Mr. Grammer, I brought .this up as a discussion rather
than.....
, I'm discussing that...
Commissioner Grammer: Well, that's all I am doing.
But I think a Commissioner has a right to defend himself.
commissioner Young: Well I don't feel that a Commissioner has got the right
to hang around City Hall for four or five or six hours a day unless he wants
to have his meals sent over, a cot sent over, and....
Commissioner Grammer: Maybe they do.
Commissioner Young: Well now, that's possible too. I don't know. I had a
question asked if the two Commissioners, involved were going to declare Home-
^] ` O stead Exemption on City Hall.
)r; ry is awfully short
Bill Brooks: Mr. Young your memo , I remember when you used
to hang around City Hall.
Commissioner Zenobia: I was getting ready to say the same thing, Bill.
_c•
"- -27-
ria9
• • •
Commissioner Zenobia: I'll go back to last year when the last City Manager
® we had used to spend half of the day in your office, Mr. Young.
Commissioner Young: Well that happens to be a complete, unadulterated
falsehood.
Commissioner Zenobia: Well it is not unadulterated falsehood. I been that
• little red car sitting in front of your office many an hour during the day.
I think you are just politicking up here, Mr. Young. And as you say, this
is a legislative body, and we are not supposed to be politicking up here.
Let's get a little work done and stop the bickering.
Commissioner Young: Well, how about letting the employees...
• From`the audience: It's about time you tWo stopped it.
Commissioner Zenobia: I•:think it is about time that you don't butt in when
I am speaking up here. You are out of order.
• Commissioner Young: Well , how about giving the employees a chance to get
their work done.
Commissioner Zenobia: Mr. Young, I have never ordered an employee in this
city to do anything, which I can't say for all Commissioners. And I never
will order an employee to do anything. If you want to pick on me, do it at
• election time.
Commissioner Young: Well this isn't election time. It has nothing to do
whatsoever with politics.
Commissioner Zenobia: Well I think it is politics. It is all political as
• far as I am concerned. I don't even want to argue with you any more about it.
Commissioner Young: Well, I wouldn't imagine you would.
Commissioner Grammer: As"long as you can't come up with names, and if I ,am
one of the Commissioners I would like for you to say it, not in a round-about,
• which I know that is who you are insinuating, it is me and him. But .either
come up with names, or just don't bring no charge against me, because as far
as City Hall is concerned, any time I want to .come to City Hall, until there
is a law against it, I will come here any time I want to and I will stay as
long as I want to.
• Commissioner Young: And you will walk into the offices, sit down, and... .
Commissioner Grammer: Yessiree, I will walk right in because that is my duty
as a Commissioner.
Commissioner Young: And by the very hint of your presence interfere with the
• proper conduct of....
Commissioner Grammer: I have not interfered with anybody in their duties.
I come to the City Manager's office, I ask him questions, that is the only way
I have contact with the rest of the employees, and that is my duty to come to
his office and find out things, And I will do it as long as I am up" here on
the Commission.
Commissioner Young: Well, I think that .within reason that something like that
is perfectly alright. But I frankly.think it has gone beyond the realm of
reason.
• Commissioner Zenobia: Well I don't know who set you up as the judge as to
what is the realm of reason, Mr. Young. ...
%. Commissioner Young: Well, just the same people who set you up Mr. Zenobia.
Commissioner Zenobia: Well I feel"I am doing what is in, reason. We have a
i ,
Commissioner Zenobia: I think he is out of order, Mr. Mayor. I think the
whole question is out of order myself.
Commissioner Young: Frankly I don't believe that the question is out of
order. For example, there have been many instances where an hour, two hours,
three hours, or four hours of a valuable city employees time has been consum-
mated by answering questions, which frankly, if the Commissioner has a list
of questions, he can present them either to a Commission meeting, or he can
present them in the form of a letter, or he can present them by telephone
then hang up and wait for them to call back, and that way is not disrupting
the general routine of the employees of the city. And I don't feel that it
is out of order, and frankly, insofar as the city employees are concerned,
I have no intention of giving anyone a list of that for the simple reason
A that their complaints to me were in a confidential nature and they did not
expect me to reveal the names.
Commissioner Grammer: Maybe the complaint came to .you. Maybe they are talking
about you instead of two other Commissioners.
Commissioner Young: Well, I certainly wouldn't object to that. It wouldn't
be the first time I was ever talked about. But on something like this...
Commissioner Grammer: Well I say, if the employee,is making a: complaint
about two commissioners, if they have given them orders or something like that,
definitely a Commissioner shouldn't do that. But not as I know of, I don't
know that any Commissioner has given anybody orders around City Hall. So I
think whoever the employee was just misinformed. you that's all.
Commissioner Young: Well I don't feel that way. I personally have observed
it a number of times. I have seen it happen for a long period of time during
• the day. And our city employees only have 8 hours of productive labor. If
the Commissioners take one hour, two hours, or three hours of their time then
they are not going to be able to function properly, and the work is going to
get behind. And then one of these days one of us is going to be raising
Cain because so and so hasn't done their work properly. Now we are not
supposed to interfere under our Charter. We are not supposed to interfere
• with the conduct of the City Employees. We are nothing more than:a legis-
lative body. We legislate policy and then it is up to people to either ful-
fill our items of legislation, and if they don't do it, then they can look
for another job.
Commissioner Grammer: That's why I say Mr. Young, these employees that
bring you this complaint to you, I don't know why to you, but if they are
going to bring a complaint and name a Commissioner, they should have gump-
tion enough to name the names if they are going to bring these charges against
a Commissioner. After all, A Commissioner does have a right to defend himself.
Commissioner Young: Mr. Grammer, I brought this up as a discussion rather
than.....
•
Commissioner Grammer: Well, that's all I am doing. I'm discussing that...
But I think a Commissioner has a right to defend himself.
Commissioner Young: Well I don't feel that a Commissioner has got the right
to hang around City Hall for four or five or six hours a day unless he wants
to have his meals sent over, a cot sent over, and....
Commissioner Grammer: Maybe they do.
Commissioner Young: Well now, that's possible too. I don't know. I had a
question asked if the two Commissioners involved were going to declare Home-
stead Exemption on City Hall.
Bill Brooks: Mr. Young your memory is awfully short, I remember when you used
to hang around City Hall.
Commissioner Zenobia: I was getting ready to say the same 'thing, Bill.
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Commissioner Zenobia: I'll go back to last year when the last City Manager
® we had used to spend half of the day in your office, Mr. Young.
Commissioner Young: Well that happens to be a complete, unadulterated
falsehood.
Commissioner Zenobia: Well it is not unadulterated falsehood. I been that
little red car sitting in front of your office many an hour during the day.
I think you are just politicking up here, Mr. Young. And as you say, this
is a legislative body, and we are not supposed to be politicking up here.
Let's get a little work done and stop the bickering.
Commissioner Young: Well, how about letting the employees,..
® From-the audience: It's about time you two stopped it.
Commissioner Zenobia: I:think it is about time that you don't butt in when
I am speaking up here. You are out of order.
Commissioner Young: Well , how about giving the employees a chance to get
their work done.
Commissioner Zenobia: Mr. Young, I have never ordered an employee in this
city to do anything, which I can't say for all Commissioners. And I never
will order an employee to do anything. If you want to pick on me, do it at
election time.
Commissioner Young: Well this isn't election time. It has nothing to do
whatsoever with politics.
Commissioner Zenobia: Well I think it is politics. It is all political as
far as I am concerned. I don't even want to argue with you any more about it.
Commissioner Young: Well, I wouldn't imagine you would.
Commissioner Grammer: As long as you can't come up with names, and if I am
one of the Commissioners I would like for you to say it, not in a round-about,
which I know that is who you are insinuating, it is me and him. But either
come up with names, or just don't bring no charge against me, because as far
as City Hall is concerned, any time I want to come to City Hall, until there
is a law against it, I will come here-any time I want to and I will stay as
long as I want to.
Commissioner Young: And you will walk into the offices, sit down, and... .
Commissioner Grammer: Yessiree, I will walk right in because that is my duty
as a Commissioner.
Commissioner Young: And by the very hint of your presence interfere with the
proper conduct of....
Commissioner Grammer: I have not 'interfered with anybody in their duties.
I come to the City Manager's office, I ask him questions, that is the only way
I have contact with the rest of the employees, and that is my duty to come to
his office and find out things. And I will do it as long as I am up here on
the Commission.
Commissioner Young: Well, I think that,within reason that something like that
is perfectly alright. But I frankly think it has gone beyond the realm of
reason.
Commissioner Zenobia: Well I don't know who set you up as the judge as to
what is the realm of reason, Mr. Young.
Commissioner Young: Well, just the same people who set you up Mr. Zenobia.
Commissioner Zenobia: Well I feel I am doing what is in reason. We have a
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® lot of question brought to us tonight by a past City Commissioner as to what
happened to this and what happened to that on the sewer program, and you won't
find out anything if you are not around here. Just tonight you asked what
happened to this, what is this coming up, I don't have a copy of it. It is
down in your box, Mr. Young. Everybody got a copy today.
t Commissioner Young: I picked up my mail this morning. And it was not there
this morning.
Commissioner Grammer: Well, maybe it would pay you to come to the City Hall
more often then because I have got my copy.
S Commissioner Young: Well that is very fine, but how many man-hours of labor
were lost while that was going on? It just...to me it does not seem fair, and
that is the reason I brought it up as a matter of discussion, because it may
as well come out and be known. There is quite a- bit of conversation around
town about it, and if I am not mistaken, there have been certain informal
requests made in the past, which apparently meant nothing.
Commissioner Grammer: Nobody maHe any requests to me, and if they did it
wouldn't do them any good anyway.
Commissioner Young: Itthink the Mayor, not to put him on the spot, but I
think he has requested similar remedial action.
Commissioner Grammer: Let me state one thing, Mr. Young. As far as authority
on this Commissioner Board, I have just as much as the Mayor, and the Mayor has
just as much as me. He don't give me orders, and I don't give him orders. It
is just as simple as that.
• Commissioner Young: Well that is the reason we have a five-person board.)
Commissioner Grammer: That's right.
From the audience: Mr. Mayor, can I say something in concern to this?
. Mayor Salvino: Yes, let them finish up first. Go ahead and finish up.
Commissioner Young: Now if the Commissioner would like to, I will be glad
to request that the Mayor appoint a three-person committee to interview a
number of persons. However, I don't think that either one of the affected
Commissioners should be included in the three.
Commissioner Grammer: Look;,Mr. Young, it is just like I stated and I will
state again, you can interview all the people you want to, unless there is
a law changed to keep me away from City Hall I will come to City Hall when
I want to, I•will stay as long as I want to. Now if you can get a law passed
to have me arrested to come in City Hall, all is good. But until that is
• done I will come when I get good and ready and L will leave when I.am good
and ready.
Commissioner Young: That is all I want to say at this time.
Mayor Salvino: Did you want to ask him on that last question, or something?
From the audience: It is in regard to the way this place is being conducted.
It reminds me when I was a child up. to about 10 years old. A -little over 60
years ago, when I attended one of the first Council meetings. Not here, but
in Europe. They have invented a name for this type of•psychologyq which they
call it in that language ------------- Now if anybody was to compare this
S affair here in the English language, I think it is "Funnyology". That is
all I have to day.
Mayor Salvino: Thank you. Commissioner Zenobia?
Commissioner Zenobia: I pass tonight.
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Mayor Salvino: We had one City employee quit on us a couple weeks ago, which
O she is entitled to a rebate on her pension money. Right now I would like to
appoint a committee, Frank Eby, Joe Bebaum, Cyrus Lee, George Bennett, John
Lassiter, and Mary Thornhill. It is up before you Commissioners.
Commissioner Young: A committee for what purpose, and for what lengtho..
Mayor Salvino: Pension.
Commissioner Young: A 30 day committee? Just to take care of this one case,
or what?
Mayor Salvino: Well, no. Appoint them to take care of all cases. But she
• is entitled to a rebate on her pension. And if we don't get a committee up
she wont get her money back.
Commissioner Hill: Would you name that Committee again?
Mayor Salvino: Yes ma'am. Frank Eby, Joe Bebaum, Cyrus Lee, George Bennett,
• John Lassiter, and Mary Thornhill.
City Attorney Walden: Have you got a copy of that pension plan there?
City Manager Neff: Yes air, Mr. Walden, I have. I was waiting for the second. _
• City Attorney Walden: There is a limit on the number. I don't have it, but
what is the number on that?
City Manager Neff: The number is five, Mr. Walden.
Mayor Salvino: Well, we can eliminate one.
•
City Manager Neff: Mr. Mayor, if you will withdraw your motion for a second
I will read you the paragraph of this ordinance number 470.....
Mayor Salvino: I withdraw my motion.
• City Manager Neff: Which was passed on the 19th of October, and it states
that the purpose of this plan and establishes. the terms of conditions under
which at the time of death, other benefits will be provided the employees of
Dania, and so forth. And getting on to the administration paragraph, it states
that the Mayor shall recommend, and that the City Commission shall appoint, a
pension committee of five persons for the purpose of administering this plan.
• The members of the committee shall hold office at the pleasure of the City
Commission. So you should recommend the five people and then the Commission
shall accept or reject your appointment. So, the number is five though. .
Mayor Salvino: Two city employees?
• City Manager Neff: It does not state whether or not they should be City.Em-
ployees, it just says five members. Five people.
Mayor Salvino: Well I will recommend Frank Eby, Joe Bebaum, Cyrus Lee,George
Bennett, and John Lassiter.
• Commissioner Grammer: Well, is this open for the Commissioners to recommend?
Commissioner Hill: Am I of the right opinion that each Commissioner would
have the right to appoint one on the committee?
Commissioner Zenobia: Not according to the ordinance.
•
City Manager Neff: Not according to the ordinance in the way it was drawn.
And I read again, The Mayor shall recommend, and the City Commission shall
appoint, him being a member of the City Commission. I believe that this is
something that should be a unanimous or universal thing though. I think Mr.
Walden will agree with that. You all have the right as a member of the Com
•
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s.,
• mission. But I don't think that anybody would want to serve on a board such
as this without the feeling that the entire commission was in favor of them,
Commissioner Zenobia: Clarke, what is your opinion, do we all have a name
in there?
City Attorney Walden: Actually, it boils itself down to that. I think if
• you simply won't go along with what Frank recommends then this is in the
realm of...
Commissioner Young: We could knock down 50 recommendations.
• City Attorney Walden: So you may as well tell,Frank, excuse me Mr. Mayor,
each of you come up with a name and you recommend them, and you come up with
your name. Otherwise he could come up with a million names and they could
vote it down. That would follow the policy I think o£ what the Zoning
Board generally.
• City Manager Neff: I think it would be wise if the Commission should caucus
and come up with a slate that would be adoptable in public to save embarrass-
ment in public. I think that this is a board that is serving at the pleasure
of the Commission without any wages or any benefit out of it, and I think that
the type of persons you should have on this Commission is someone of high
calibre, and I certainly don't think that they should be embarrassed by being
• rejected. This is my recommendation.
City Attorney Walden: The only suggestion I would like to make to the Commis-
sion is that I think a businessWn or good businessmen on the board. It would
come under business function to manage one of these programs.
• Commissioner Zenobia: Why don't we each pass a name over to the Mayor and
let him read them off?
Commissioner Hill: Well I would...this amount that this employee has in the
pension plan is such a small amount right now...I wouldn't think it is going
to make too much difference if it is delayed a while. I would like to see
• this appointment tabled and give us a chance to make our recommendation or
study this and accept the ones that he presented.
Commissioner Young: Will you make that in the form of a motion?
Commissioner Hill: Yes sir.
• Commissioner Young: Second.
Mayor Salvino: Any more discussion?
Chief Lassiter: May I say something on that? Just as,,a point of information.
Mr. Boggs from the State Treasury Office was in here Friday and talked to Chief
Smith and I on this thing. According to his interpretation of the pension plan
it is not legally a pension plan until the board is appointed. That is the way
the state interprets. The way he said this, I am not an attorney, but the
thing he told us was that the State law requires that that administrative board
be appointed.
• City Attorney Walden: What tias"-the�,state.-got,'to'do with it, John?
Chief Lassiter: He said they were supposed to approve them, I don't know.
City Attorney Walden: Anyway, without question it should be done.
• 0
Commissioner Zenobia: We still could do it tonight. Why couldn't each one
of us put in a name and do it tonight?
Commissioner Grammer: Carl, I kind of agree with Vera, because I have names
that I was going to submit, I know you have and probably we all have. So,
maybe I had a couple or so, I would like to study this another day or two
anyway to see which way I want to go being as I just got the one name to ppr.in.; ,
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Commissioner Hill: This will give us a chance to have a special meeting.
9 Commissioner Young: Bob, we could have a special meeting Wednesday or
Thursday afternoon, or something like that.
Commissioner Grammer: That I agree with.
• Mayor Salvino: Clerk, call the roll.
The roll being called, the Commissioners voted as follows:
.Grammer Yes
Hill Yes
• Young Yes
Zenobia Yes
Salvino Yes
• There being no further business on the agenda,' the meeting adjourned.
Mary Tr ornhill
City Clerk-Auditor
•
•
Frank Salvino
Mayor-Commissioner
•
•
•
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